See here for a full list of transcripts

[Trailer]

Yael FARJUN: Even when you ask in restaurants “Please don't put pork, nothing with pork”, they would still shred a little bit of pork on top of it, because “What do you mean, you cannot have it with pork? But this is the whole flavour of the thing!” Yeah.

[Intro]

OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast about people who are making their mark in China. I'm your host Oscar Fuchs.

Today's episode is a compilation of the things that the guests from Season 01 would miss the most and missed the least if they were to leave China. This one will touch a nerve with a lot of people, I think, and for a couple of reasons. Firstly, you might be someone who left China temporarily during the pandemic, but now six months later, you still have no way of returning. And this situation describes some of the people whose voices you're about to hear. So what was designed as a hypothetical question has now become a sad reality for many people.

Meanwhile, those of us who didn't leave China are now basically trapped here, all the more so for non-Chinese people for whom the borders are still closed if you intend to return. We're in a luckier situation, since China is at this moment relatively free of the virus. And we can travel to many places within this vast country. But this lack of international mobility is a real wake-up call to those of us who have perhaps gotten used to a lifestyle that allows us to keep one foot in different countries. It's a reminder that this is a privilege, not a right. And I hope that I for one will not take it for granted in the future.

The other reason that this episode might be a bit jarring is that this is the one question that elicits answers that might include some of the nuisances and frustrations that you pick up on in everyday life, anywhere. I try to avoid talking about these things in general. So this is the one question which allows the guests to express these little bits of negativity alongside the positives. It's funny though, thinking about those people from Season 01 who have left China, I wonder if the things they thought they would miss the least are actually now the things that they reminisce about the most.

[Main]

[Voiceover]

OF: Philippe Gas, the Disney resort CEO from Episode 01.

[Clip]

PG: Miss the least, easy: pollution. I won't miss that. What I will miss the most: the people. I found the people - especially in Shanghai which is where I lived - very close to my culture. European, Latin, loud-speaking, saying but they think, very direct. I remember walking in the street, maybe a couple of days after I arrived, and I passed by a truck driver, a delivery guy, who was talking to the guy in the shop. And they were screaming at each other. And I thought they were gonna fight. Actually no, they ended up laughing. I had no idea what they were talking about. But I will miss that, I will miss the people.

[Voiceover]

OF: Sebastien Denes, the inclusion advocate from Episode 11.

[Clip]

SD: I will miss the most, the people. The people I've worked with, the team. Because over those seven years, you've seen them build their families, have children, struggle, grow as a person, as a professional. And this probably is the part I would miss the most.

OF: Anything you wouldn't miss?

SD: The airlines. Ah they’re always late. It's very stressful.

OF: That's someone who's done a lot of business travel, I can see in your face.

SD: Yes.

[Voiceover]

OF: Emily Madge, the aquarium conservationist from Episode 14.

[Clip]

EM: The thing I'd missed the most? Definitely the people. I've met such wonderful people here. The thing that I wouldn't miss is - I've got to say it - it’s the spitting.

OF: Oh.

EM: I still can't get used to it.

OF: It's funny, actually. Because nowadays, especially in Shanghai, I find that they don’t really do it as much as perhaps in other areas.

EM: Maybe we move in different circles.

OF: Oh… Right.

[Voiceover]

OF: Jorge Luzio, the marketer for Sprite from Episode 05.

[Clip]

JL: Oh, it's very easy. WeChat stickers.

OF: Right. And what about the least?

JL: Well I would say - and it's not about talking about different manners - but it's about burping. It still strikes me…. It is so… For me, it makes me laugh every time that I hear it. And for any kind of people it’s super normal to do that in the middle of a meeting, and it’s… I will not miss that.

OF: Right.

[Voiceover]

OF: Gina Li, the invention company CEO from Episode 06.

[Clip]

GL: Let's take Shanghai as an example. We're actually free to do a lot of things here, because people are so tolerant, and they put up with different types of things. Even though they don't agree, maybe they don't do the same, but they won't just jump into your zone and tell you not to do that. I think that has become something special in big cities in China. It's a little bit cold, but also at the same time it's more free. What I will miss the least is also related to this part, it’s the crowded packs of people. Like, it does bother me sometimes. I do feel people are not aware enough that they have a certain space, leave it to other people. So I think that's it.

[Voiceover]

OF: Yang Yi, the broadcaster from Episode 21.

[Clip]

YY: Oh, miss the most, I think would be efficient life. Because, you know, China has 1.4 billion people. Huge population here. So the labour costs in China are very low. Which means there are a lot of people who could give you different kinds of service in China. And it's very cheap. And then the subway. Because I remember in the U.S, maybe New York city has a very big subway transportation system, but in any other cities you have to drive by yourself, right? I can’t drive. So it's very hard for me to live in the U.S. But I think ‘efficient life’, what I mean about that is, you can choose your way to live in the city. And no-one can judge it.

[Voiceover]

OF: Srinivas Yanamandra, the compliance leader from Episode 15.

[Clip]

SY: I would miss the least is basically my passion for watching movies, mostly Telugu movies. That is completely frozen for me. So I think I'm going to enjoy that when I go back. That's the first thing. And the second thing is, if I think about what I will miss, it’s basically the walk to the office. The most luxurious thing that you can have, you can walk to the office and go back to home on foot. So I think that is what I might miss.

OF: I think you do have a luxurious situation, even for China standards. Like, not many people walk to work in China.

SY: Maybe, yeah.

[Voiceover]

OF: Simon Manetti, the business leader from Episode 17.

[Clip]

SM: So the most would be the optimism. My wife is French, I've got Italian family, and I go back expecting to love it immediately, and I look around and everyone is just so grumpy and negative. And I immediately miss the Chinese optimism. What would I not miss, oh the internet, man. The Internet. I get so frustrated, yeah. The few grey hairs that I have are solely because of the internet not working.

[Voiceover]

OF: Greg Nance, the ultramarathon athlete from Episode 23.

[Clip]

GN: The thing I’d miss the most is the energy and dynamism of China. You can't really replicate that. It's really really magical here. I love that. The thing I would miss the least is near-death experiences with 饿了么 [Èleme] drivers and scooters, flying down sidewalks. That still terrifies me to this day.

[Voiceover]

OF: Eric Olander, the journalist from Episode 03.

[Clip]

EO: The thing that I’d miss the most is the pace. Everywhere else feels slow compared to Beijing and Shanghai. I am wired for that. And maybe I've been raised in it. But I go back to New York or London - or some other places that are presumably fast - and they feel very slow. So I love that and it's just… it's kinetic. It's energising. You get going, and out you go. Seven days a week, the Sundays here are as busy as the Mondays. What I don't like - and with everything there's always good and bad - the waiting in line thing. It’s gotten much better. It’s much better. It's a generational thing. I generally find people under 30 are very good at waiting in line, and people over 30 are not. And you have to remember that everything in China is about scarcity. This is a country of 1.4 billion people, where resources are in short supply, seats in schools are in short supply. Everything's in short supply. So people have to fight with what they can get. And I understand where that comes from. But when you’re waiting to check out of a hotel, and a guy just walks straight in front of you… And the amazing thing is, he doesn't even see you.

OF: Yeah, it’s not rudeness, actually.

EO: It’s not actually rudeness. And you're just like "No, no”, you know, and then he looks at you and he goes “Oh, I'm so sorry”. And I think Westerners oftentimes misinterpret it as being direct rudeness. He was only looking at the checkout desk. And he didn't see the two people or three people.

[Voiceover]

OF: Stephane de Montgros, the events company CEO from Episode 19.

[Clip]

SDM: So I think every time I go away from China for more than three weeks, what I miss is the fast pace. And I do miss it when I get away. The one thing that I do not miss when I leave is the fact that the pollution and the environment is still a bit of a struggle. But again, on the bright side, I think that the government is deeply aware. So something that I do not miss, but also something that I hope we would not talk about if you were to interview me in five or ten years.

[Voiceover]

OF: Sanford Browne, the biochemist from Episode 29.

[Clip]

SB: What I would miss the most is just the pace of change. There's an addictive energy that you get from things continuously changing. So you might see little things that change elsewhere, but nowhere else where you have speed and scale that combine: wow. So that is something I’m definitely going to miss. What I won't miss is the pollution aspect. I know the government is making a huge effort on this part. I really think that it's all of our responsibility to do that.

[Voiceover]

OF: Abe Deyo, the tour manager from Episode 27.

[Clip]

AD: I guess I would miss just the way things are done in China. I mean, after 18 years, I kind of got used to how everything's done. I guess the best example of that would be something small, like even exiting an aeroplane. In China, everyone just gets up and the first person who can get into the aisle, gets off the plane. But there's an efficiency in that, because you look, there are never any gaps in between people. They're all exiting. Whereas every time I go back to the U.S, you’ve got to wait for that first row in front of you, everyone to clear out. And, my god, some people are so damn slow. So you always see, there's like a gap of like 10-20 metres. So I kind of would miss that.

OF: Right.

AD: And what would I not miss? Oh, pollution.

OF: Oh, right. I mean, I sense it’s getting a little bit better. But it's still there, isn't it?

AD: Yeah.

[Voiceover]

OF: Vy Vu, the fitness community leader from Episode 08.

[Clip]

VV: Probably the convenience actually. And this is my ‘miss most’ and my ‘miss least’ because it's incredible that everything comes to your door. You run out of toilet paper, you run out of oil to cook your eggs, it's all just honestly a couple of clicks away. Which is incredible, really.

OF: And the downside of the same thing?

VV: Packaging. And a lot of packaging. And so I've been really conscious of that lately. So if I need to go get something to eat, I will make the effort of leaving the home.

[Voiceover]

OF: Tom Barker, the diplomat from Episode 25.

[Clip]

TB: That's such a hard question, because there's so many things I would not miss about China. I mean, not the least, the ongoing irritation I have right now, where every internet site and news site I read is currently unavailable. And I find it disappointing and slightly sad that that is becoming a more frequent occurrence, where you know, you can't access the news. But actually, the thing I think I'd miss the most and not miss the most is the same thing. And that is the delivery service you have here. Like, I love how easy it is to get food, I love the fact that you can dial up on your phone a hundred different types of cuisine, and it will get delivered within 30 minutes. And it's all amazing. I'll miss the convenience of that. What I won't miss is just the pile of plastic and crap that you're left with afterwards. And the way that that's incentivised this really awful behaviour - which I notice even amongst myself and my family and my compatriots - of decadence and consumerism, in a way which is quite harmful to the environment. And so I try to be socially responsible that way, and try to only order from places which don't use plastic for example, or are more sustainable in the way they produce their food and deliver. But even then, you're still… it's still that sort of crass consumerism that convenience has produced.

[Voiceover]

OF: Michael Zee, the Instagram influencer from Episode 07.

[Clip]

MZ: For both, it’s old people in pyjamas. I think when you see the 90-year-old man carrying his trash out, and he's in his giant underwear with his slippers on, and no other clothes, I don't know, it's just… I'm shocked that I'm not shocked any more.

[Voiceover]

OF: Yael Farjun, the historical researcher from Episode 12.

[Clip]

YF: Miss the most will be how easy things can be here in terms of ordering things online, let's say. Or the fact that you can just walk out of the house with your phone, and you'll have everything at the tip of your fingers. Sometimes going back home feels like going back in time. That's definitely… We've been spoiled here. Miss the least would be… I love Chinese food, and unfortunately most of it is made with pork. So yeah, which is a problem for me. So miss the least is the fact that even when you ask in restaurants “Please don't put pork, nothing with pork”, they would still shred a little bit of pork on top of it, because “What do you mean, you cannot have it with pork? But this is the whole flavour of the thing!” Yeah.

[Voiceover]

OF: Lissanthea Taylor, the pain expert from Episode 28.

[Clip]

LT: Right. Well, I would miss many things. I would miss the 10pm manicure, any day the week.

OF: Oh right.

LT: And no appointments. I'd miss having everything delivered. I wouldn't miss the complex algorithm of “Should you leave the house today?” Which relies on the temperature, the air pollution, is it torrentially raining, and how's the pollen? So this is specific to you and I in the French Concession here in Shanghai, Oscar, but we have these beautiful London plane trees, and this pollen that just… it’s like rain. And you've got to live here to realise that the best alternative probably in that algorithm is torrential rain. Because it gets rid of pollution, gets rid of pollen.

OF: And luckily for us in Shanghai, it's wet most of the year round. Yay. Well, thank you for leaving the house, and coming to me today.

[Voiceover]

OF: Noah Sheldon, the documentary filmmaker from Episode 09.

[Clip]

NS: I love the public life here. I love seeing things on the street, I love seeing life lived out on the street. I live in a lane house, I love hearing the neighbours. When we go visit my dad in Chicago, my daughters instantly are kind of freaked out about how quiet it is there.

[Voiceover]

OF: Roz Coleman, the theatre producer from Episode 22.

[Clip]

RC: I really will desperately miss the way in which your food and your daily life is so casual, and on the street, and everybody is on the street. Like, on my street, everyone’s playing badminton, and hanging out, and there's a fruit, and you just get it. And, like, people using the street as a playground, as a space to shoot the breeze and compare notes on the order of the day. I hope that I'm gonna continue to see that in the UK if I go back, but I’ll really miss that sense here.

OF: And what about the thing you’ll missed the least?

RC: Construction noise. And the way that you experience construction noise here is that you have to let it go. Because the sound of progress is what's going on here. We're building, we're moving, we're going. It's not that I don't hear it any longer, it’s that I am somehow OK with it. And so, while I intensely dislike the construction noise, it has taught me things about myself that I never expected I had the capacity for.

[Voiceover]

OF: Angie Wu, the jewellery craftsman from Episode 18.

[Clip]

AW: I would miss the convenience, of all these apps like Taobao, 饿了么 [Èleme],  滴滴 [Dīdī], like, really, there's no place in the world like Shanghai. And what I would miss the least is the noise. I don't like noise in general, so… Yeah.

[Voiceover]

OF: Nini Sum, the artist from Episode 16.

[Clip]

NS: I would miss people the most, like my parents and friends. And the least would be construction noise. Damn, it's just too much. Sometimes, like in my studio, you can hear this from a building far away. I go home, and it’s 11pm at night, and somebody's sawing wood out there. And I literally jumped off the stairs, and I was shouting at them, like “What do you think you're doing? Grandmas and kids are sleeping, I'm going to call the police!” And they're like “Why do you make it a big deal?” People are so ignorant about this. This is the thing I hate the most.

OF: Yeah.

NS: It’s crazy.

[Voiceover]

OF: Lexie Comstock, the cookie supplier from Episode 20.

[Clip]

LC: I would miss 煎饼 [jiānbing]. It's a crispy crêpe sort of pancake situation that combines eggs and scallions and these crisp… almost like crispy wontons, is that how you would…?

OF: I know what that is.

LC: And there’s this, like, bean curd in there, and you can put spices… it's just incredible. And it's very cheap. I could eat it twice a day.

OF: And then the thing that you’d miss the least?

LC: The thing I would miss the least is construction.

OF: Oh right.

LC: Like, I very much support all of the innovation that's going on, and all of the cool things that are happening in Shanghai, but there has just been a constant stream of construction, all around the area that I live in. And apparently it's going to be going on for the next two or three years. Yeah, it's just loud. And it happens in the middle of the night. And there was a point when, like, my apartment was shaking in the middle of the night and waking me up. Yeah. So I'm just very over the dirty roads, because I have a dog. So I walk him, he gets dirty, all this stuff. So I know that it's necessary, it happens in every city. But it's just been really hard to escape for me because I… it's day and night, you know?

[Voiceover]

OF: Maple Zuo, the comedian from Episode 02.

[Clip]

MZ: 饼 [Bǐng]. You know, pancakes, Chinese special pancakes.

OF: Ah right.

MZ: So they can roll everything in. It's easy, quick and just very tasty.

OF: Is there any food then, in that case, that you totally hate and you would not miss at all?

MZ: Oh, you know Chinese people eat weird organs. I don’t like all of that.

[Voiceover]

OF: Lori Li, the private club GM from Episode 10.

[Clip]

LL: I would miss Chinese food, and the atmosphere when you have Chinese food. It’s all about, you know, friends gathering and everything mixed up.

OF: It's not actually so much about the food. It's about the whole ritual around the food.

LL: Yes.

[Voiceover]

OF: Astrid Poghosyan, the violinist from Episode 04.

[Clip]

AP: I think the most I would miss is traditional local 小笼包 [xiǎolóngbāo]. What I wouldn't miss is probably… have you ever smelled the stinky tofu?

OF: Oh god.

AP: I think your brain can’t even imagine a kind of smell like that existed, ever. That's why it's shocking every time.

[Voiceover]

OF: Nick Yu, the playwright from Episode 13.

[Clip]

NY: The food from my home, the ‘bad smell fish’.

OF: Oh, God.

NY: Yeah, that’s my cuisine, I love it.

OF: Oh, God, I can’t. I can’t. I can't. I can't do the stinky tofu, and the stinky fish sounds even worse.

NY: It’s really good.

OF: And what about the other way? Like, what would you miss the least about leaving China?

NY: Shanghai food.

OF: Ah right. It's too sweet, right?

NY: Yeah.

[Outro]

OF: Thanks for listening. We'll be back again next time with a compilation about WeChat stickers. That will be the most visual of all of these compilation episodes, so please make sure that between now and then you have subscribed to Mosaic of China on Instagram or Facebook. Or if you want to see the stickers in their original WeChat form, please make sure that you are in one of the WeChat listeners groups. Just add me on mosaicofchina*, and I'll make sure that you're added to the group. And of course, there are images accompanying today's episode there too. See you next time.

*A different WeChat ID was mentioned in the original recording. That ID is now obsolete, and the updated one has been substituted.

[Clips]

PG: Thank you very much.

MZ: Thank you.

EO: Thank you so much.

AP: Thank you too.

JL:  Thank you very much.

GL: Thank you.

MZ: Thank you again.

VV: Thank you so much.

NS: Great, thank you.

LL: My pleasure too.

SD: Thank you very much.

YF: Thank you.

NY: Thank you.

EM: Thank you.

SY: Thank you so much.

NS: Thank you for having me.

SM: Awesome, thank you.

AW: Thank you.

SDM: Thank you.

LC: Thanks for having me.

YY: Thank you for having me.

RC: Thank you so much for having me.

GN: Thank you for having me.

GC: Thank you

TB: Thank you very much.

SC: Thank you.

AD: Great to see you too.

LT: Thank you so much.

SB: Thanks.

OC: Thank you.

See here for a full list of transcripts