See here for a full list of transcripts

[Trailer]

Douglon TSE: They have a fake Nest. These copycatters are almost good market research. You don't have to spend the time saying “Shall we open a Nest there?” Someone’s already done it for you.

[Intro]

OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast about people who are making their mark in China. I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs. 

You may have noticed that the regular episodes of the podcast have been designed in a way that can be enjoyed no matter whether you’ve lived in China all your life, or have never even stepped foot here. Well in today’s penultimate compilation episode from Season 02 of the show, we’re throwing that idea entirely out of the window because we’re sharing the guests’ answers to the question: “What’s your favourite place in China to eat, drink or hang out?” So it’s especially useful for people listening in China who are looking for new ideas about how to spend their time. And especially useless for everyone else.

[Main]

[Voiceover]

OF: Ajay Jain, the car designer from Episode 21.

[Clip] 

AJ: This one is a question I've thought about a lot, because actually, I've only heard the first season of course, the second season’s not out yet. Everybody had a place, right?

OF: Well, maybe I had to force them to choose one.

AJ: Oh right. Because it depends when you ask me this. You know, there was a time I used to love Unico, I used to love 永康路 [Yǒngkāng Lù], we used to go to Sugar before that. So right now, the nicest place for us to hang out is right opposite our house, less than 100 metres away, there's a little place called Porcellino. I'm sure next week it'll be something else. 

[Voiceover]

OF: Vittorio Franzese, the lawyer from Episode 27.

[Clip] 

VF: In Shanghai I have a few places. I can mention Porto Matto for comfort food, an Italian restaurant from the south of Italy on 常熟路 [Chángshú Lù]. It’s a place where I go when I really want to feel like home, and I manage to do that. It's the food I’ve grown up with. And then I can also mention Casa Mia for the quality of food. And I have to say that I do really love W Hotel for their Sunday brunch. I do like that vibe.

[Voiceover]

OF: Louise Roy, the childbirth and lactation specialist from Episode 06.

[Clip] 

LR: Honestly, it’s… I love my sofa. 

OF: Yeah

LR: I just want to be home. I spend all day with people, and talking to people, and I just love Netflix. I really… it's a really boring answer. 

OF: No, having been through the conversation we've just had - all the things that you deal with - I can imagine the sofa being the place you want to go. 

LR: Yeah. I mean, I do… I love going out with my close friends - my friends who are my family here - who I can talk about the good and the bad with. And so it's not a place, it’s a people.

[Voiceover]

OF: Zhang Yuan, the performance art exhibitor from Episode 07.

[Clip]

ZY: So that would be home. I mean, ‘home’ means my home and my friends’ home. And I even think of curating something about that in the future. We can blur the border of public and privacy, if we can bring performers to people's homes. That's what I mean.

OF: Mmm.

[Voiceover]

OF: Cassandra Chen, the heavy metal bar owner from Episode 16.

[Clip] 

CC: Well, of course, I hang out at Inferno most of the time. 

OF: And if there was a second choice? 

CC: I would go to Latina. It's a Brazilian Steakhouse buffet. All you can eat. It's a pretty good deal for me.

[Voiceover]

OF: Wendy Saunders, the architect from Episode 12.

[Clip] 

WS: Locally, I think for 15 years, nearly every week I go to a local dumpling place on 延庆路 [Yánqìng Lù], and it's been there, it's never moved. It's amazing that it's still the same place. I don’t know why.

OF: I was gonna say. I'm impressed. You're looking remarkably fit, considering you have that many dumplings. And it's true, because that question, it’s open to interpretation. Because some people would say “It's the best, the fanciest”. And some people would say “It's the one that you go to most often”. And I think it's telling as to how you interpret the question.

WS: Yeah. And the thing is, also, I think if you've been here long, you tend to kind of keep your life a little bit simple. You go to some places that you know what you're going to get. And I find, like in work, everything is quite busy and stressful. So I tried to keep my family life quite simple. 

OF: That is a good survival technique, just to create this kind of oasis of predictability and calm in your life - when there's so much change, so much chaos, so much speed - I think is important in a place like Shanghai.

WS: Yeah.

[Voiceover]

OF: Sean Harmon, the beer company CEO from Episode 09.

[Clip] 

SH: So I'm a 静安 [Jìng'ān] guy. I've lived in 静安 [Jìng'ān] most of my time in Shanghai, it’s a district downtown. And our office is right at the crossroads of 武定 [Wǔdìng] and 胶州 [Jiāozhōu] which you know. We were very lucky to choose that location. We moved in there in 2011. At that time there were no bars on that street. And fortunately for us, they kind of built the road around us somehow. Being a beer company, we have a lot of clients on that street. So we'll pop down to Malabar and have a beer there. 

OF: Malabar.

SH: But there are a lot of places I could mention to go have a good beer. I also love The Rooster, I love Café des Stagiaires and… But it's countless, I mean, being connected to the F&B industry.

OF: Yeah. Well, I like Malabar, because that has a nice interesting link to Angie Wu from Season 01, who said the same bar.

SH: Oh really? 

OF: Yeah.

SH: OK.

OF: Maybe you're gonna run into her there. 

SH: OK yeah, it’s a great place.

[Voiceover]

OF: Murray King, the public affairs leader from Episode 29.

[Clip] 

MK: I am not very creative, so my favourite place to dine - or for brunch - is M on the Bund.

OF: Oh, there you go. 

MK: And I hope it exists forever, at least as long as I'm here. I almost feel like it's named after me because ‘M’ for Murray. It's not for me, it’s for Michelle who owns the restaurant. But I love the restaurant, I love the location, I love the cuisine, I love the branding, I love the feel of the place. I also love 武康路 [Wǔkāng Lù], it's just a beautiful area. And 安福路 [Ānfú Lù], 湖南路 [Húnán Lù], 兴国路 [Xīngguó Lù], that whole area. So I spend a lot of time at the little cafes and restaurants there, when I have a chance to come back to the 浦西 [Pǔxī] side of Shanghai.

[Voiceover]

OF: Stéphane Wilmet, the head of consumer insights at L'Oreal from Episode 01.

[Clip]

SW: I'll tell you where it is, it’s where sometimes we bump into one another, it’s 安福路 [Ānfú Lù]. And I'll tell you why. Because we used to live there - with my wife Sophie and our kids - 25 years ago. And I can tell you at that time, we were the only foreigners in that street. And the transformation over the years is amazing. Now you see all these KOLs coming to 安福路 [Ānfú Lù], around 武康路 [Wǔkāng Lù], taking pictures. It's a street that's always reinventing itself. And to have seen it from when it wasn't that, to where it is today, it just adds meaning to the experience of that very beautiful street.

OF: Mmm.

[Voiceover]

OF: Jo McFarland, the product sourcing leader from Episode 18.

[Clip] 

JM: See it's actually not too far from here, Oscar. And I think you'll understand when I say like 武康 [Wǔkāng] Road, 富民 [Fùmín] Road. Even though we're living in the middle of a big city, they all kind of feel quite European, feels quite relaxed, it's got a chilled atmosphere, and it's just a really nice place to hang out.

[Voiceover]

OF: Chang Chihyun, the humanities professor from Episode 03.

[Clip]

CC: I still like my petit bourgeois French Concession nightlife. The bars, the cafes, the western restaurants are the best in China. There's no comparison.

OF: And do you have one particular place that jumps out?

CC: There's great Spanish cuisine on 番禺 [Pānyú] Road. They have a great gin & tonic selection, that’s the best.

OF: OK, I'm going to mysteriously say “Yes, I have been to that Spanish place on 番禺路 [Pānyú Lù]”. And I will also not name it. 

CC: Yeah.

[Voiceover]

OF: Crystyl Mo, the fine dining expert from Episode 26.

[Clip] 

CM: I'll just say one place that I love, which was a cocktail bar I used to go to every Friday with my girlfriends for years. And that's Senator Saloon in the French Concession.

OF: Nice.

CM: Where they make perfect classic cocktails, including my signature drink, the sidecar.

OF: Oh, my one is the basil gimlet there, they do a great basil gimlet.

CM: Oh yes they do. They do. And it's just consistent every time. I love the bartenders there. I love the guy who founded it, David Schroeder, a brilliant American bartender and specialist. And they also have the most amazing bar snacks out of any bar.

OF: Even the freebie chips they give you seem to be elevated.

CM: Small and perfect. 

[Voiceover]

OF: Jiyoung, the transgender teacher from Episode 30.

[Clip] 

J: Well, I guess the classic would be Roxie, because I can let loose and I can totally be myself. But there’s this kind of sense of companionship.

[Voiceover]

OF: Vladimir Djurovic, the brand naming expert from Episode 13.

[Clip] 

VD: I'd love to travel in time when Face Bar was there. That was a place in 瑞亭路 [Ruìtínglù] / 茂名路 [Màomínglù]. It used to be a red brick house with wonderful cocktails. Currently, I mean, I think I really enjoy something that is really close to my place, I go to a small Japanese restaurant called Xime, an interesting Mexican dish interpretation by a Japanese chef and stuff, and it's quite a small place. So see you there.

[Voiceover]

OF: Seth Harvey, the education coach from Episode 19.

[Clip] 

SH: I play on a billiards team once a week, at a bar called Park 91 on 大沽路 [Dàgū Lù], near People's Square. It's a pretty cool chill place, the kind of place I can walk behind the counter and pour my own beer, and feel very at home there. If I just want to go for a drink, I really like this little bar called Karma on 东湖路 [Dōnghú Lù]. It has this like cool little window, and a very chill vibe, it’s like Filipino guys run it. I normally like to do the club stuff anymore. I like something that's just chill and casual. Shanghai can have a bit of a materialistic vibe to it, in a bit of a status-seeking, show-off, luxury prone kind of way. And I'm just a simple guy from the Midwest, I have no interest in things that are pretentious.

[Voiceover]

OF: Salome Chen, the investor and developer from Episode 24.

[Clip] 

SC: Maybe the riverside, the west bank. Because, I told you, I had this colourful expensive life back in Beijing. A lot of parties, drinks. And I’m kinda tired of that. So I miss my childhood, this peace and the connection with local people. So I chose to live not too far from the river, and in the morning sometimes I go jogging along it. You see all these big ships, slowly moving there. And that's the industrial part of Shanghai, and it's something more stable.

OF: It’s much more real, right? 

SC: Yeah. 

[Voiceover]

OF: Michelle Qu, the improvisational comedian from Episode 20.

[Clip] 

MQ: Actually, I don’t have so much time to hang out. But a friend of mine took me to do a city walk around the 豫 [Yù] Garden and the 苏州 [Sūzhōu] River. So we checked out the old houses, and the very old small streets around that place. And I thought “Oh, that's the feeling of time passing by.” You can see old people reading newspapers in their old houses. You can “Knock, knock,” ask for an old uncle to give you a haircut. And you can buy fried chicken and you have it just on the riverside. It’s just the feeling of happiness.

[Voiceover]

OF: Alex Shoer, the clean energy entrepreneur from Episode 11.

[Clip] 

AS: So the place I frequent the most is actually 功德林 [Gōngdélín], “Godly” vegetarian restaurant. It's not the coolest hang out in town. But I actually have grown to love it. I got to know all of the staff who work there. 

OF: It's a chain, right? There's more than one of those places.

AS: Yeah, it is a chain. I know there's at least three in Shanghai. It has an old historic lineage of being one of the first Buddhist-style restaurants. So the one I go to is on 五原路 [Wǔyuánlù] and 武康路 [Wǔkānglù]. And they have a really nice big back patio as well. So you actually get like this kind of alfresco dining if you want. And they have cheap beers, so you can go have beers at a Buddhist restaurant.

OF: I've seen these places across town, and I've never gone in. And as I'm talking to you now, I've just been to the doctor's two weeks ago, and she said I should eat less meat. I should have just one little handful of meat per week. And I'm like “What?” So I’m going to check this out.

AS: There you go. I hope you enjoy it. It's a little diamond in the rough.

[Voiceover]

OF: DJ BO, the DJ from Episode 23.

[Clip] 

BO: Well, on 定西路 [Dìngxī Lù] by 新华路 [Xīnhuá Lù] there's a cafe on the second floor there. And I consider that my office, because you have food there, there’s good internet, it's a good people-watching spot, so I generally have meetings at that spot. My friends know it as my office. 

OF: Oh nice.

BO: So I love hanging out there and doing my thing there. 

OF: What’s it called?

BO: It’s the City Shop, which is like the international market there. 

OF: Yeah.

BO: This one City Shop has a cafe on the second floor that no-one knows about or goes to. 

OF: No.

BO: And you can order sandwiches there. They have food ready to eat there. They don't promote it. And it's close to my apartment.

OF: And you look on to the supermarket, or…

BO: Yes. 

OF: How funny.

[Voiceover]

OF: Katherine Wong, the Peruvian healer from Episode 04.

[Clip]

KW: When I'm with my family, we love to go to Lost Bakery for breakfast. And when it's just me, I love to go to Cafe On Air for work. It's a very cute hidden coffee shop. It's so peaceful.

[Voiceover]

OF: Zhao Huiling, the Africa travel vlogger from Episode 28.

[Clip] 

OF: I just give up on all of this. What is your favourite place to go, to eat or drink or just hang out?

ZH: This little coffee shop downstairs from my house.

OF: Nice. 

ZH: I would go with my coffee mug. It's basically a coffee shop where the owner is a serious biker fan. So sometimes I'm sitting there surrounded by all these really serious bikers, they’re wearing these heavy leather jackets, I was like “Whoa, I feel like I'm part of their little subculture.”

[Voiceover]

OF: Casey Hall, the fashion journalist from Episode 22.

[Clip] 

CH: This is a question that's changed quite a lot since we had children. We have three little girls who are five and three and one. And gosh, so much of our leisure time now is spent just doing kid-related stuff. I have always hated malls my entire life, and I spend so much time in malls now. I can't say it's my favourite place still to be, but it's an awfully convenient place to get some kid-related activities. And in a place like Shanghai for example - where the weather's not always good, the air quality is not always good - also very convenient. Oh, where do I love? I mean, just this morning I was at Shanghailander café in 五原路 [Wǔyuán Lù]. I just love being there.

OF: That’s quite a new one, right?

CH: It is quite new. And I go there to work sometimes. But to be honest with you, I go there more when I just want to have a little break from everything. I started knitting last year as a hobby. And at least once a week I like to go to Shanghailander café, and drink a flat white, and spend an hour knitting and listening to a podcast. You know, it's not the most exciting life I lead, but that's my self-care.

OF: Oh I like it. And also, you might want to know that Gigi Chang from Season 01, her favourite place to hang out was just opposite yours, ‘Spicy Moment’ on 五原路 [Wǔyuán Lù]. 

CH: Oh yes, I love that place too. 

OF: Yeah. She really likes that. And I've been there now, like, it must be 10 times since she recommended it.

CH: And 湖南 [Húnán] food is a really underestimated kind of Chinese cuisine, I feel like. If you do like spicy food, 湖南 [Húnán]’s…it's different than other spicy foods. 

OF: It is.

CH: It’s a different kind of spice. My mother-in-law is Malaysian. She loves spicy food. So when she comes, I want to have someone to eat spicy food with. 湖南 [Húnán], she really struggled with, because it's just not the kind of spice that she's accustomed to. 

OF: Yes.

CH: She was like “Nope, not enjoying this at all”. 

OF: Uh-oh!

CH: I misread the spicy vibe.

[Voiceover]

OF: Cocosanti, the drag performer from Episode 05.

[Clip] 

C: Oh, I am a huge foodie. And I say this with pride, I’m a foodie, and I'm fat, and I love it. That being said, I thoroughly want to give a shout-out to Charlie’s…

OF: Charlie's Burgers, is it?

C: Charlie’s Burgers. Yes, there are times really, really late at night, where I'm just like "Alright, I need to eat something, because I'm coming home from work at 4am.” And I don't mind eating something like 兰州拉面 [Lánzhōu lāmiàn], but, like, I don't want something heavy and oily and greasy. And I'm like “Oh, Charlie's is open. I can just have a chicken nugget.”

OF: It's open that late?

C: Sometimes it's like a hit or miss. But for the most part, it’s, like, because people are they're enjoying themselves.

[Voiceover]

OF: Jamie Barys, the street food expert from Episode 02.

[Clip]

JB: I love the holes-in-the-wall, and the mom-and-pop owned places. But those are not places you can hang out because a lot of times they don't have AC or heat. And they rely on fast turnover. So the longer you sit at their table, the less money they're making. So it's not cool to just sit and hang out. So if I'm going to go hang out somewhere, I would say Heritage by Madison, Austin’s place, is just the best. I absolutely love it.

[Voiceover]

OF: Michael Kinsey, the fire engineer from Episode 25.

[Clip] 

MK: One of the places - and I don't know if this is a bit of a cop-out - but it's Pie Society. 

OF: Oh, yes I know it.

MK: On 陕西 [Shǎnxī] North Road. 

OF: There’s a couple, I think.

MK: Yeah, there is, there are two. And I actually live not far from there. And they do loads of pies, Sunday roast, and a lot of ‘pub grub’ food.

OF: Yes. When I first found it out, I was like “What’s this place?” And I walked in and got a steak and kidney pie with baked beans on the side. I was just like “This is the happiest day of my life.”

MK: It's always interesting when I invite some of my Chinese friends, perhaps, to go and try it as well, because I’m like “Look, you can try British food”. 

OF: Although we're not world famous for our cuisine. 

MK: No. No, normally it's fish and chips. 

OF: Well, there's a better place for fish and chips, have you been to Camden’s?

MK: Oh, yes. In Found 158. 

OF: Yes. 

MK: Yes I have, I’ve been there once. I had a chip butty and it was great.

OF: Oh god.

[Voiceover]

OF: Björn Dahlman, the Swedish clown from Episode 17.

[Clip] 

BD: Well, I love going to new restaurants. And every time I find a small little restaurant that becomes my favourite… Every time I go out from Shanghai and I come back, that restaurant has closed down.

OF: Yeah. Can you think of one particular one?

BD: Seahorse Sushi, that had grilled eel sushi. Oh, it was amazing. And they made their homemade spicy mayo sauce. It was, I think, 2017 or 2018 it disappeared, I don't remember.

[Voiceover]

OF: Douglon Tse, the island businessman from Episode 15.

[Clip] 

DT: When I just want to relax and chill in Shanghai, I usually go to this corner of 仙霞 [Xiānxiá] Road and 安龙 [Ānlóng] Road. 2-3 blocks of just heavily populated - like a Microdistrict of - restaurants and bars. Mostly Japanese themed. But the whole vibe of that place is really cool.

OF: That's when you're in Shanghai, but you're here less and less, right?

DT: Yeah, maybe next time, my new favourite spot will be somewhere in 滴水 [Dīshuǐ] lake, to hang out. 

OF: Ah yeah.

DT: They have a fake Nest. Oh, people from Nest, you should check it out.

OF: Right. It's copying the bar and restaurant ‘Nest’ here in central Shanghai.

DT: Yeah. Maybe Nest could have been there first.

OF: Right.

DT: Yeah. These copycatters are almost good market research. You don't have to spend the time saying “Shall we open a Nest there?” Someone’s already done it for you.

[Voiceover]

OF: Noxolo Bhengu, the African community organiser from Episode 14.

[Clip] 

NB: I love Lotus. It's an Indian restaurant. I just go and sit on the cushions and it feels so cosy. And Indian food is one of my favourite cuisines. It's just like a taste of home. 

OF: Yeah.

[Voiceover]

OF: Jovana Zhang, the handicrafts designer from Episode 08.

[Clip] 

OF: Here's an interesting one for somebody who lives in the village. Where is your favourite place to go out, to eat or drink or hang out? Is there actually a place in the village that you can go to?

JZ: There is one, ‘Mad Monkey’.

OF: OK, so by default does that mean that's your favourite? Or would you basically drive the hour to 杭州 [Hángzhōu] to go somewhere?

JZ: Now I would not drive anywhere to go hang out somewhere because I have a kid, and it's impossible to plan the trip. But before, yes. Yeah, and if it's really really an emergency for some sweets, then I would send Lei to go to 杭州 [Hángzhōu] to buy it and to bring it back.

[Voiceover]

OF: Danma Jyid, the Tibetan social enterprise leader from Episode 10.

[Clip] 

DJ: I really like Charu in 成都 [Chéngdū]. 

OF: Oh what’s that?

DJ: So Charu is a Tibetan co-working space in 成都 [Chéngdū]. If you ever go there, just visit them.

OF: Yeah.

DJ: I really like it there, because like you often see people you know, just run into people you know. And it's just nice to hang out and have a cup of coffee.

OF: Nice. 

DJ: Yak milk. 

OF: Oh yak milk coffee.

DJ: Yes.

OF: How does that taste?

DJ: It tastes really nice.

OF: I don’t believe you.

DJ: You can give a try, if you ever go to 成都 [Chéngdū]. 

OF: OK.

DJ: Probably I'm so used to yak milk, yeah.

[Outro]

OF: I have been back to one of the Tibetan parts of China since that recording with Danma, and I was able to actually enjoy a cup of yak milk tea for the first time. So look, you can teach an old dog new tricks, and this one is looking forward to heading to Charu on his next visit to 成都 [Chéngdū]. 

I hope you were also taking notes on all those places too, head to mosiacofchina.com for all the links to them in the transcript alongside this episode. As we often discuss on this podcast, things change all the time in China, and perhaps nowhere as quickly as in the F&B scene, so make sure you tick off these places before they disappear. Perhaps the saddest example of this is with Murray King’s answer - M on the Bund - which is closing after 23 years of operation in China. 

Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs, with artwork by Denny Newell. The next episode will be the final of these 10 compilations from Season 02, and it's the audience favourite on the theme of Chinese words and phrases. So 下次见 [xiàcì jiàn], or ‘see you next time’.

[Clips]

SW: Thank you very much.

JB: Thank you, it’s been a pleasure.

CC: My pleasure.

KW: Thank you so much.

C: Oh hey, thanks.

LR: Thank you very much.

ZY: Thank you.

JZ: Thank you.

SH: It’s been a pleasure.

DJ: Thank you.

AS: Thank you.

WS: Thank you.

VD: Thanks.

NB: Thank you.

DT: Thank you.

CC: Thank you.

BD: Hehe, thank you.

JM: Thank you very much.

SH: My pleasure, thanks.

MQ: Thank you.

AJ: Thanks a lot.

CH: Thank you.

BO: Thank you very much.

SC: Thank you.

MK: Thank you.

CM: Thank you.

VF: Thank you so much.

ZH: Thank you for having me.

MK: It was my pleasure.

J: Thank you so much.

See here for a full list of transcripts