See here for a full list of transcripts

[Trailer]

Björn DAHLMAN: And they'd put in a face scanner, you have to scan your face to get your toilet paper. Does this machine calculate how much paper I need?

[Intro]

OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast about people who are making their mark in China. I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs.

In our third special compilation episode from Season 02, we listen to how the guests answered the question: "Is there anything that still surprises you about life in China"? And anyone living in China at any point over the last decade, be they Chinese or non-Chinese, will understand the context of this question. There’s always something out there helping to keep us all on our toes. So take a listen to these surprises, and I’ll be back at the end of the episode with a couple of new ones to share myself. 

[Main]

[Voiceover]

OF: Jamie Barys, the street food expert from Episode 02.

[Clip]

JB: Expats who just have not even remotely invested in China. And they live here, they lived here for years… So I met a woman, who had lived here for 13 years the other day, she had never tried 煎饼 [jiānbing]. 

OF: What? 

JB: Yeah, I was like “OK first of all, let me change your life, because it is the best breakfast food in the world.” But also “Just what have you been doing for 13 years that you've never had the opportunity to try 煎饼 [jiānbing]?” 

OF: Yeah. And it just shows you how that first step can be so hard. Like, you might have walked past the 煎饼 [jiānbing] maker, and just thought “Oh it’s so intimidating to try and ask that person.” Like, good for her for having been here 13 years, but then having that first step with you. 

JB: Yeah.

[Voiceover]

OF: Michael Kinsey, the fire engineer from Episode 25.

[Clip]

MK: I think one of the things which surprises me still is how kind and welcoming people are, especially to foreigners. You know, from when I have problems working out an app on my phone, or I'm trying to pay for a bus ride, someone will come and help me. And I haven't even asked for it. It still amazes me.

OF: I think this could also be a function of your exuding sincerity, Michael.

MK: Well, I try and… Whatever I do, I try and do it with a smile. And, you know, and just look clueless. I've hammered down the clueless look quite well now, so…

[Voiceover]

OF: DJ BO, the DJ from Episode 23.

[Clip]

BO: Recently, I just got an offer to go DJ in a city in 江苏 [Jiāngsū] province that I never heard of called ‘Zhenjiang’… ‘Zhanjing’… I don't even know. But like, I thought I was at the end of going to new cities in China. And out of nowhere, I got a hit up from someone who had seen me at a party in 南京 [Nánjīng]. And they said “We want you to come to our city” and I said “Sure”. So maybe sometimes I get complacent, and I forget about things like that. But I love that. That's great.

[Voiceover]

OF: Salome Chen, the investor and developer from Episode 24.

[Clip]

SC: No, not really. Become my grandma always taught me to keep calm and not be surprised. And I’ve got used to that attitude. If there is anything new or very different happening, I will just try to analyse why. Yeah.

OF: Yeah, that's definitely the scientific side of you.

[Voiceover]

OF: Jo McFarland, the product sourcing leader from Episode 18.

[Clip]

JM: It’s got to be the rate of change, particularly construction. Like, so for example, out of our office window, there was a building that was just like a massive hole in the ground. And now there’s, like a 30-storey building. And it's the same across the way from my apartment. It's like one day, almost like there was an unveiling, it’s like “Oh my god, there's a whole full apartment building”. And it just happened so fast. Only China can do that. Or you can go somewhere every day - to a restaurant or somewhere - and then you’ll turn up the next day, and it's gone. And somehow it still surprises me every single time.

[Voiceover]

OF: Katherine Wong, the Peruvian healer from Episode 04.

[Clip]

KW: Change. Change, in terms of how fast there's buildings appearing, or disappearing. In my street, in two or three months, they are, like, four coffee shops. New.

[Voiceover]

OF: Wendy Saunders, the architect from Episode 12.

[Clip]

WS: You walk around the neighbourhood where you go every day, and you'll just see something totally new, and something new popping up. Or you’ll notice something, people doing something different than they did five years ago. I was going for lunch, and I just passed by this, this small little hole-in-the-wall. And you look in, and it's this super cool little store. And it's like very trendy young people in it, in the middle of nowhere. And you think “Wow, you can't imagine that happening even five years ago.” And it's just always this, kind of, never boring place.

[Voiceover]

OF: Vladimir Djurovic, the brand naming expert from Episode 13.

[Clip]

VD: This week, I was driving back from a meeting in 浦东 [Pǔdōng] and it got me to one of the avenues in the north of Shanghai like towards 常熟路 [Chángshúlù], 天目路 [Tiānmùlù]. And I saw that the whole avenue for kilometres was under reconstruction. I saw China like that 20 years ago, I saw also this 10 years ago. But in Shanghai, I mean this year, I still see a lot of construction. It keeps surprising me to see that that level of undertaking. 

[Voiceover]

OF: Murray King, the public affairs leader from Episode 29.

[Clip] 

MK: There are definitely things that surprise me. But sometimes, surprise me in special ways. I'll give you kind of a unique example. I remember when I first came here, you know, I had the opportunity to travel domestically, and this was like 27 years ago. And in those days, you got a boarding pass, you went to a small airport terminal. And then you would be bussed out - or you'd walk out - to the aircraft on the tarmac. It wasn't anything like it is now. And even though you had a reserved seat, you know, there was a scrum to get onto the flight. And I mean, it was a rough scrum. And you knew you had your seat, in theory. Sometimes you had to remind people who got your seat that it was your seat, it would always work out. And then, the same thing on an escalator, everybody would just push in. And there are a lot of reasons for that, and it's not a criticism. But I remember, it was like about eight years ago, I was on an escalator going up to the second floor in my office building at the time. And I looked up and I noticed that everyone was standing to the right. Everybody, without exception. And it just made me realise, everything you thought you knew was different. Because people are progressing, and society is changing so quickly, and so dynamically. And it's just the smallest of things, but it's exciting to see it. And it's exciting to be part of it. And I kind of almost felt like I was the one who was kind of standing on the wrong side. So your perspective changes.

[Voiceover]

OF: Seth Harvey, the education coach from Episode 19.

[Clip] 

SH: I was walking out of my office the other day, and there was a guy, and he had a turtle on a stick. Like, I think some of us maybe know what I'm talking about. But I think it's his pet turtle. So he's got a string wrapped around its shell, and on a stick. And he just like carries it around with him and hangs out. You just never know what you're gonna see. Every day, something new surprises me and like, I feel like that's a huge value. It's one of the things that I really love the most here, is that it's a very unpredictable place.

[Voiceover]

OF: Sean Harmon, the beer company CEO from Episode 09.

[Clip]

SH: Recently, top of mind is for sure eCommerce. The power in reach of a channel that's so new. And how quickly everyone, it seems, has adapted to it. Regardless of age, I mean, everyone is buying online, it feels like.

[Voiceover]

OF: Danma Jyid, the Tibetan social enterprise leader from Episode 10.

[Clip]

DJ: In my village people are following all kinds of social media. They also buy all kinds of stuff, like from Taobao and 拼多多 [Pīnduōduō], you know, all these apps. And the 快递 [kuàidì] delivery person would send stuff to us, like to our soap production space, because that is more convenient for them, rather than just go to each household. Because in the nomadic area, they all live far away from each other, right? 

OF: Right.

DJ: So our place becomes a collection area. So sometimes the families would ask us to bring stuff to them, you know “Oh, bring my parcel, bring my parcel” you know. So yeah.

OF: Right, because I guess that is the most prominent address in the whole village, right?

DJ: No, the delivery person is lazy. 

OF: Yeah, right. 

DJ: Yeah.

[Voiceover]

OF: Chang Chihyun, the humanities professor from Episode 03.

[Clip]

CC: Let me put it this way, using university education. We know that for the past 20 years, Chinese universities are forcing university lecturers and workers to publish academic papers or journal articles. When we evaluate our colleagues, they still use how many papers you have published. Oh my god, yeah. Because China is gigantic. So it's understandable when we need to manage this country, and this scale of people - or universities - through a very quantitative way. But I am a person who is in charge of evaluating people's talents. Every day, I have to recruit foreign talents. I don't believe in quantitative standards, because it's impossible.

[Voiceover]

OF: Noxolo Bhengu, the African community organiser from Episode 14.

[Clip]

NB: How time moves differently here than the rest of the world. We’re on a whole other planet. Time moves so quickly here. And I've tested that out, because there was a time I was living at home for a year, and I had so much time. This city’s on steroids. 

OF: Yeah.

NB: This city’s on steroids.

[Voiceover]

OF: Zhao Huiling, the Africa travel vlogger from Episode 28.

[Clip]

ZH: The pace of life. I still feel, on a daily basis, I have to learn a great deal to catch up with the millennials. To know how to speak their language in order to communicate with them.

[Voiceover]

OF: Ajay Jain, the car designer from Episode 21.

[Clip]

AJ: I just came back from from Beijing Motor Show. And do you know, this new cult of journalists are all people with rigs around themselves, holding cameras, and filming themselves next to cars. They're like girls dressed up for KTV, or a nightclub. They could be selling cosmetics, you know. I wonder, are they scripted? What do they say? You know, so it just… Everything, in every respect, felt out of context with the rest of the world.

[Voiceover]

OF: Casey Hall, the fashion journalist from Episode 22.

[Clip] 

CH: I'm going to answer this in a little bit of a less light-hearted way. I think that for my husband and I - who have been here for such a long time - one of the things that we would say has been a surprise, over the entire time we've been here, is that we don't have that many close Chinese friends. And we have some - and some wonderful, wonderful friends - but there is still a difficulty, I think, with forming widespread meaningful relationships between foreigners and Chinese people. My communication skills are quite good, I can speak Chinese quite well, I feel like it's not a language barrier. It is much more of a cultural barrier that is difficult to overcome. I guess I thought that over time, it would become easier. But in many ways it doesn't. Like, it’s easy to have a lot of acquaintances, but a kind of more deeper-level relationship with Chinese people, we’ve found really hard to execute.

OF: Yes, I agree with you. I think there are a number of reasons for that. I think Shanghai being a big imposing city is one of those reasons. It would be the same if you were in London. You know, if you were in London, you would gravitate towards other non-Londoners basically.

CH: True.

OF: Because a lot of people in London would have friends since they were at school, and they're not interested necessarily in newbies, who may be transient and might leave. 

CH: Yeah. 

OF: I think, though, with the cultural piece, yeah, what you say is true. And it is something which I see especially with people who are in relationships with other foreigners. I think if you have one of you who is Chinese, then just naturally you tend to hang around with more people who are Chinese. And it just is a little bit more difficult when both of you are non-Chinese.

CH: I think that it's very fair to say.

OF: What is the answer?

CH: I don't know. I don't know. And it's something that has been, for a long time, something that was surprising to both of us.

OF: Yeah.

[Voiceover]

OF: Jiyoung, the transgender teacher from Episode 30.

[Clip] 

J: Oftentimes people in the West look at China and be like "Oh, they're just a crowd of obedient peoples”. And I must admit, sometimes I had that stereotype in my head, before I came to China. And to see that being broken over and over and over again, is something that surprises me. Because the way that they navigate obstacles, now that's replaced my paradigm of how I view the cross-section of Chinese society.

[Voiceover]

OF: Cocosanti, the drag performer from Episode 05.

[Clip]

C: China has grown so fast and so quickly, and so many cities have developed. But one thing that will always surprise me - and something that really **** me off - is the obstacles that China puts in the way, that I think it's just for like people to get a kick out of. Like, the only entrance into the Metro is, you have to walk all the way down here. And we could open this stall up, but we're not going to do that. They're just minute, little things that just don’t… it's not necessary.

[Voiceover]

OF: Michelle Qu, the improvisational comedian from Episode 20.

[Clip]

MQ: You can borrow an umbrella in the metro station.

OF: Oh, how does that work? So you scan it, you take the umbrella…

MQ: Yeah. You take the umbrella, and in 24 hours you can give it back in any metro station. 

[Voiceover]

OF: Cassandra Chen, the heavy metal bar owner from Episode 16.

[Clip]

CC: A lot of things can surprise me. Ten years ago, we didn’t even have smartphones. And now everybody does.

[Voiceover]

OF: Zhang Yuan, the performance art exhibitor from Episode 07.

[Clip]

ZY: Technology. But in a way you know I mean, I believe we cannot live without technology. The philosopher who just passed away, Bernard Stiegler, he just said technology is the poison. But on the other hand it’s the solution. So you have to get along with it.

[Voiceover]

OF: Douglon Tse, the island businessman from Episode 15.

[Clip] 

DT: The thing that still surprises me is how Chinese people are able to copycat things, and make it into creative products. Companies that chose to be in Tier One cities have now outgrown the market. And people who decide to start their business in Tier Five cities have now outgrown their market. So now they're fighting for the Tier 2,3,4 cities. And so the foreign companies have to make their products cheaper. Companies that started in Tier Five cities now have to improve their quality. So across the board, you're gonna see a whole bunch of battles. 

[Voiceover]

OF: Louise Roy, the childbirth and lactation specialist from Episode 06.

[Clip]

LR: I was surprised the other day to learn - from a bunch of nurses that I was talking to - that you can get condoms on 饿了么 [Èleme] arrive at your door in 20 minutes. And then if it breaks, you can get the morning-after pill 20 minutes after that. And I was like “Maybe you should just stop buying condoms on 饿了么 [Èleme]”.

[Voiceover]

OF: Alex Shoer, the clean energy entrepreneur from Episode 11.

[Clip]

AS: How a city of almost 30 million people can feel like a village, or even a college campus at times. Something about the neighbourhoods of Shanghai, and the districts of Shanghai, and how contained they feel, how little you really need to leave your neighbourhood. You have health care, you have food, you have social activities, you have exercise, you have friends, you have parks, and this walkability.

[Voiceover]

OF: Stéphane Wilmet, the head of consumer insights at L'Oreal from Episode 01.

[Clip]

SW: Every day, all the time. Because again, when I think I finally figured out why or what this means, that's exactly when the cards turn. And I realise, I don't know. So I'm every day constantly amazed and reminded.

[Voiceover]

OF: Björn Dahlman, the Swedish clown from Episode 17.

[Clip]

BD: So I do Kung Fu in People's Park. And I just remember going to the public bathroom there, and they'd put in a face scanner, you have to scan your face to get your toilet paper. I understand the logic of it, because I hear people just take the toilet paper and they bring it back home to save money. But it's just… it's so bizarre. It's so many steps that’s like "Could this have been done in another way?” No, they put in face scanners for toilet paper. Does this machine calculate how much paper I need? Does it see my chubby Western face? And it gives me a lot.

[Voiceover]

OF: Jovana Zhang, the handicrafts designer from Episode 08.

[Clip] 

JZ: It was Spring Festival a few years ago, we were eating in Lei’s parents’ home in 杭州 [Hángzhōu]. And his family from 天津 [Tiānjīn] was visiting, Lei’s sister, Lei’s mum’s brother with his wife, and their daughter, so it's like three generations. I just sat to eat, I wanted to put the thing in my mouth, and then the kid who was, like, about three years old, she suddenly said “I need a sh*t”. And then three of them - the mother, the grandma and grandpa - ran to the kid, took off her panties and trousers, and let her sh*t in the middle of the living room. And I was like “What the hell is this?” And the toilet is just two metres beside.

OF: Wow. 

JZ: Yeah

OF: You don't see that so much…

JZ: After that, not so many things surprise me anymore.

[Outro]

OF: So those were the surprises from the guests of Season 02, I hope you enjoyed that compilation. I said at the beginning of the episode that I also had a couple of new surprises up my sleeve to share. Well the first of these is that, as of October 1st, the podcast has just crept over the threshold of 100,000 downloads. So let me say a big thank you to you for contributing to that number, I’m grateful for every single one of those listens. 

And speaking of gratitude, I’m also grateful to my husband Denny Newell for the second surprise, which is the new banner image for Mosaic of China that he designed. As I’m releasing this compilation, I’ve actually spent the last couple of weeks traveling around China recording some of the new conversations for next Season, so hopefully I’ve managed to successfully upload the new banner image to all the online accounts for the podcast by the time you’re listening to this. If not, then hey ho I guess that counts as a surprise too. 

Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs, with artwork by Denny Newell. The next compilation episode coming up will be on the topic of China facts, so it'll be a good chance to brush up on your China trivia. See you again in another 2 weeks!

[Clips]

SW: Thank you very much.

JB: Thank you, it’s been a pleasure.

CC: My pleasure.

KW: Thank you so much.

C: Oh hey, thanks.

LR: Thank you very much.

ZY: Thank you.

JZ: Thank you.

SH: It’s been a pleasure.

DJ: Thank you.

AS: Thank you.

WS: Thank you.

VD: Thanks.

NB: Thank you.

DT: Thank you.

CC: Thank you.

BD: Hehe, thank you.

JM: Thank you very much.

SH: My pleasure, thanks.

MQ: Thank you.

AJ: Thanks a lot.

CH: Thank you.

BO: Thank you very much.

SC: Thank you.

MK: Thank you.

CM: Thank you.

VF: Thank you so much.

ZH: Thank you for having me.

MK: It was my pleasure.

J: Thank you so much.

See here for a full list of transcripts