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[Trailer]

AW: ‘Don't Cry for Me, Argentina’. 

OF: Oh you’re kidding!

AW: I’m very good with that. But usually after that song, I cannot sing anymore.

[Intro]

OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast about people who are making their mark in China. I'm your host, Oscar Fuchs. 

And we're back, it’s 2020 and I've started the new decade with a stinking cold. And to make matters worse, I just realised that the medicine I've been taking expired in 2018. So if this episode ends up being the first and last of the year, then you'll know what happened. 

Luckily for me, in my recording with today's guest - the award-winning jewellery designer and maker, Angie Wu - we introduced her very clearly right at the beginning of our chat. So I don't need to do anything else, except to wish you a happy and healthy start to the year. And I'm looking forward to bringing you the rest of Season 1 over the next few months. Starting… right… now. 

[Part 1]

OF: Well, I'm here with Angie Wu. Angie is the founder of AWÜ Studio. 

AW: Thank you for having me. 

OF: My pleasure. And first of all, what is AWÜ Studio?

AW: For now it's a jewellery brand. And it's just my name, It’s Angie Wu, so it’s my abbreviation. It’s a design studio.

OF: Excellent. And people will probably already notice your accent. But before we go into that, the first question I ask is, what object did you bring today?

AW: I brought a calliper. I brought this actually from Canada, like, this has been travelling with me everywhere since I was 17. So it's something that I have always used, and I always carry with me, no matter where I go.

OF: I've actually never seen a calliper. So it's like a measuring instrument?

AW: Yes, you can measure the inner distance and outer distance, you can measure the thickness of anything. So it's really, really handy.

OF: Right. And presumably, there are now electronic or digital versions of the calliper. But you decide to use this version. Why?

AW: I have both. But, I mean, I started with this and have a sentiment about it. It’s my first professional tool in design. And it's always more precise, when you when you use this.

OF: Right. Well, thank you for that. And of course, this leads us into what you do, which is jewellery design. And you make everything yourself too.

AW: Yes. And the reason I brought a calliper is also to illustrate that for me, tools have always been something very special for me. I love tools. I love using tools. I love this magical transformation of making something out of another substance. So it's like, this transformation.

OF: And it's always been jewellery, or you've been doing other design before that?

AW: Actually, I studied design art in Montreal. So as a design artist, you mainly focus on the concept - the art concept - but you create design wares. So, furniture and any accessories, and that's how I started to use my callipers. And then I did a product design degree. I can design anything, even cars, or dental equipment and stuff. And then I took a goldsmith class, and now I'm doing jewellery.

OF: Right. And you mentioned Montreal, so is that your accent? It's not quite a Montreal accent, is it? 

AW: No. My accent is really strange. A lot of people never, like, understand. When people ask me where I’m from, I usually say I'm from Taiwan, because that's where I was born. And then people will continue to ask me “Why do you speak such good English?” So I saw “Well, I'm Canadian”. Actually, too, I have a Canadian passport. And then they’re like “Why do you have a strange, like, Latin accent in your English?” And that's when I have to tell them that I’m also from Argentina. I actually grew up in Buenos Aires, before we immigrated to Montreal. So we basically spent almost 10 years in each country: 10 years in Taipei, and eight years in Buenos Aires, and 12 years in Montreal, before I moved to Spain, and then now in Shanghai.

OF: So it's more a Spanish accent, basically…

AW: It's a Spanish accent because that's my first foreign language. Yeah.

OF: Wow. I mean, I have some version of identity crisis myself, with… I’ve got four grandparents from four different countries. But I think you, maybe, are a bit more confused than me even.

AW: Yeah. I think ever since I left Taiwan when I was 10, I’ve never not had an identity crisis, ever in my life. And especially in Shanghai it’s really strange, because you would think that someone who looks Chinese coming to China, we would integrate better. I actually suffer more identity crisis in Shanghai, because local people don't see me as local, and Taiwanese people don't think I’m Taiwanese, they get super confused and they don't know where to put me in which category. Yeah

OF: Yeah. I mean, I'm the same. I used to be a headhunter for 11 years, and we like to put people into their compartments, and you're the person who I would not know what box to put in.

AW: Yeah, because people like to predict your behaviour, right? 

OF: Right.

AW: And they just don't know what to do with me.

OF: Yes. And so what happens when you go to Taiwan then, is it the same story?

AW: Yes, this is the strangest thing, like, after living in Shanghai, every time I go back to Taiwan to see my my grandmother and my family, I mean my relatives, they are really eager to tell me that I’m not Taiwanese, they think I'm Chinese. It's super strange, I think it's because I've never stayed in a place long enough to form a very strong accent of anywhere. So I'm like a sponge, I absorb the accent of anywhere I stay. So I'm pretty sure I have some Chinese accent when I speak Chinese. But also I have a very strong Taiwanese accent, somehow. I don't even speak Taiwanese. So yeah, this is super strange. In Spain, they think I'm from Argentina; In Argentina, they think I'm from Spain. And when I speak French, French people think I’m Québecoise, and - because I studied at Alliance Française, that’s where I took my French when I was in Argentina - of course Canadian people, they can tell that I have a Parisian accent. Super confusing.

OF: But there was a reason I wanted to ask you that particular question, because… where is home to you right now?

AW: OK, I always have this problem with defining home. Like, I used to think it’s where my parents are, and where my family is, and where people I love are. But now they're everywhere in the world. So recently I realised that home is where I am, it’s where my heart is. And I also came to the realisation that your body and your being is the only person who is going to be with you for the rest of your life. So your body is your home, and it’s your temple and you should take care of it. So home is where I am.

OF: Nice. And I think you built on that concept, didn't you, with your jewellery?

AW: Yes, that was actually my first collection in 2014. I tend to make jewellery that are more conceptual and more artistic, it’s kind of a marriage of my two studies like product design and fine art. So I like to make conceptual wearable art. Like, functional, but very conceptual, very artistic. So that collection is definitely not very representative of my work. But the meaning is so important, so I decided to create a very small collection of the shape of a little house - necklace, earrings - and the idea is that when you wear that, it reminds you that home is where you are. And when you give these away, it’s like telling the other person “Home is where you are, where I belong”. So it's a small collection, but it's very special. 

OF: Well that’s a nice starting point to talking about your skills, like, how would you say that you have progressed from that first collection to what you do these days?

AW: I mean, a lot, it’s been five years already. And of course, like with any skill, the more you do it, the better you are. And this is the really exciting part because now I'm making bigger statement pieces and incorporating more gemstones. I only work with precious metals, so usually silver, gold and platinum. But I am very excited about what I do, because this is something I can improve for the rest of my life. And it's just really cool.

OF: So tell me about some of your favourite recent pieces.

AW: OK, so recently, I have been working with rough diamond. It's actually diamond, but uncut, and unpolished. And for me, there's no more precious material, less precious. everything for me from nature is beautiful and is valuable. So you can give me a rock, and I can convert it into some beautiful jewellery. And for me, diamonds - OK there’s a value of course, a market value - but it doesn't necessarily… for me, it’s not the most beautiful stone the world. So I like this concept of the rough diamond, it doesn't look like diamond, but it is actually diamond. And I like to work with that, pairing with silver, and create very interesting artistic pieces, also to challenge people to understand that, “Why is diamond, the shiny ones, special?” Now, everything can be special.

OF: And so, is that's specific for the China market, or do you think this is something which you could be doing wherever you are.

AW: I have never intended it to be local. It has always been international, like me. And also there's another thing, my approach to design, I never think about my audience when I design. Except when I do custom-made, because I do make a lot of bespoke, like, engagement rings and wedding rings. But other than that, when I create my own collections and my artworks, it’s just a self-expression. I don't think about the market, I don't think about the profitability, I create something that I want to express. But I do apply everything I learned in product design, about ergonomics, all this… size and dimensions… It has to be functional, it has to be comfortable to wear, but it’s my self-expression.

OF: And so here in China, the customers who come into your studio, what is the breakdown in terms of the Chinese versus the non-Chinese?

AW: Half of them are Western people in Shanghai, and half of them are Chinese. And the Western people tend to understand quicker and better my concepts, they understand these conceptual designs. And Chinese people, they find it fascinating that it’s so sculptural, something they don't understand, and I always encourage them to try them out. And then they realise that it's actually very beautiful, it fits them. And so it's very encouraging because it's special and unique. Yeah.

OF: Can you generalise in terms of what a Chinese customer tends to like more than a non-Chinese customer? Or is it hard to generalise like that?

AW: So OK, there are two styles that are very prominent in my work. One is architectural style, like very rational, structural, and linear, and geometrical; and the other one is nature. My mom is a biologist, so I always grew up in nature, I love nature. So I work a lot with nature, like leaves, seeds, all these organic shapes. So the Western people, they like a lot of architectural styles and linear styles. But Chinese people, unless they are architects or designers, they usually tend to like, more the nature style.

OF: That’s interesting. And so, who is the real Angie then, you know, in terms of like, what makes you tick?

AW: Yeah, so I'm a very nervous person. And I like to be alone a lot. This is something that most people would not expect from me. I love solitude, I need a lot of time alone. When I’m alone I feel good. But when I am with people, I come alive, and I can be very outgoing and passionate. I think this is also part of me, it’s… Yeah…

OF: Yeah, I think that's where we're quite similar, because people would see me as very outgoing. I mean, look, I'm hosting a podcast, for God's sake. But I think I'm the same, like, even if I have a party at my house, I will usually go into my room and close the door for 10 minutes, and then come out afterwards.

AW: Yeah, I need that balance in life, the time alone. And the time when I'm with people. Yeah, I always get too excited when I’m with people. And I think when I'm with people, my Latin side comes out. Like, definitely, people can feel that.

OF: That's interesting. And then when you're working, is it the more kind of introvert side?

AW: Yes, I like to work alone. And I think that's more the Canadian or the Taiwanese side. I shut down, and I like to immerse in my own world.

OF: So where do you think the future will be for you? Do you think you'll stay in Shanghai, how long have you been here now for?

AW: If I tell you that you can guess my age, but I don't care. I have been here for 14 years. And I will always keep my headquarters in Shanghai. It’s where I studied, and I love what has been going on. But definitely I am going to be going back and forth. And ideally, moving to Europe first. European people really understand my work, like, really quickly. Yeah, and I don't worry about the market.

OF: And so obviously, you've been very successful. But I want to ask you, where have been the biggest difficulties or even the biggest failures?

AW: I wouldn't call myself successful. I’m doing better every year, so this is really good. It's very encouraging and I’m very grateful to those who believe in me. And the difficult part has always been the business. I was always trained as an artist and a designer. I've never dealt with business, I'm very bad with numbers. So all these legal things and paperwork drive me crazy. You know, for me, the only thing I knew is going to markets - like, in Argentina and Canada, you have these weekend markets, designer markets, and you sell your work, like a gypsy - that’s what I know to do. And now my brand is more than that.

OF: Right. OK well, thank you so much, Angie, it was great to have you here. That's the end of our first part, and now we'll go on to Part 2.

AW: OK, great, thank you.

[Part 2]

OF: Right, so the next part is, I asked you 10 questions. So let's go straight into it. Question 1: What is your favourite China related fact?

AW: OK, so the first time I heard this fact, I was fascinating and shocked. Shanghai itself is around 26 million people. The entire Taiwan is no more than 23 million people. And this just blew my mind.

OF: And I think that's just the official number, there probably are some others too, right? 

AW: Yes.

OF: Do you have a favourite word or phrase in Chinese?

AW: Actually, I do. And I still cannot find the right English term for that. So, when I grew up my mom was a teacher, professor, right? So she always cared about inner beauty. She was always trying to use this word called 气质 [qìzhí]. If you separate the word, it means ‘the quality of your 气 [qì]’. It's like inner beauty, grace and elegance. And it's something - my mom would say - something you cannot buy, you have to nurture it, you have to build it, and it has to be from childhood. So she always says like, if you are someone with good 气质 [qìzhí], you will always benefit from that. Like, if it's outer beauty, it’s something that doesn't last. So she always wanted us to build this inner beauty: 气质 [qìzhí].

OF: Nice. Question 3: What is your favourite destination within China? 

AW: Definitely Yunnan. I was designing museums before - OK, that's what I was doing before my brand, I was a museum designer - we built museums around the world: Science and Technology Museums, Childrens Museums… and we built an Agricultural Museum in Yunnan. So I've been there, for three years, going back and forth. It’s so biodiverse. And they are 26 minorities in Yunnan itself. And this is so beautiful. These are native, local people, and they still make a lot of things by hand. They create their own tools. And the jewellery, the accessories they make them by hand. Their clothes…. This is so beautiful, I mean, it’s the most exotic thing about China. 

OF: And where was the museum?

AW: The museum is in 曲靖 [Qūjìng], it’s like two hours away from 昆明 [Kūnmíng]. But we had the chance to travel everywhere in Yunnan with the government, with the client, so I had a chance to see the beauty Yunnan. It’s amazing.

OF: You’re making me very jealous. I've only ever done a stopover in 昆明 [Kūnmíng]. I really want to go down, but you really have to have a good, like, week to go to all the places.

AW: Yes.

OF: And even then, just the main places. There's so many other small places right?

AW: Yes.

OF: OK, well, I will swallow my envy right now and keep going. If you left China, what would you miss the most, and what would you miss the least?

AW: I would miss the convenience, of all these apps like Taobao, 饿了么 [Èleme],  滴滴 [Dīdī], like, really, there's no place in the world like Shanghai. And what I would miss the least is the noise. I don't like noise in general, so… Yeah.

OF: Is there anything that still surprises you about life in China?

AW: Yeah, so recently, I had a really bad experience. Like, I have this studio that I built, my jewellery studio, in Jing’An Villa, close to 静安 [Jìng'ān]. And for five years, everything was great, I even just renewed the contract with them. And then out of the blue when I was in Italy doing my exhibition in April, the landlord just called me and told me he sold the building. So he wanted me out in one month. And he didn't honour the contract. For three years, he was telling me “Oh, we trust each other, I like you so much.” So I couldn't do anything about it.

OF: Ach. Just when you think you understand how things work, everything's running smoothly, there’s always going to be something that comes unexpected 

AW: Of course. 

OF: What is your favourite place to go out, to eat, to drink or hang out?

AW: I still go to Malabar, I love the Spanish food there. And I go to Barbarian, and Bar Centrale, Fat Cow, so these are the few places I go often.

OF: Would you be able to choose one favourite?

AW: I really like Malabar, because of the Spanish environment. 

OF: Do you know, I haven't been there. That's the one place you said that I haven't been.

AW: The food is really good. And it's not overpriced. Really good portions, it’s not like really tiny tapas. So I will take you there next time.

OF: That's a date. What is the best or worst purchase you've made in China?

AW: I have to say the best. It's amazing. You know how humid is Shanghai right? So I bought this machine - I discovered it by accident on Taobao - and it's actually a blower that connects to a blanket, like a double-layer blanket with holes on it. So when you blow for one hour - you put this blanket between your bed and your mattress and your duvet- and if you blow it for one hour, it will eliminate all the humidity and dust mites. Because I’m allergic to all kinds of mites. So the bed would become fluffy, super dry, super comfy. So I've been using that for the last eight years. It’s really really cool, everyone should have that in Shanghai.

OF: Wow. What is your favourite WeChat sticker?

AW: OK, so I actually change every month, or every two months, depending what I add, new ones. But recently it has been this reindeer that’s rolling, like, on his back, on waves. And he’s just rolling on this, looking super happy and comfortable.

OF: That's cool because you actually do a lot of water sports, right?

AW: Yeah, I actually do. I do windsurfing and kitesurfing. And this little reindeer just remind me of my happy time by the beach.

OF: And that’s not far from Shanghai, right?

AW: No, it’s only one hour exactly from Jing’An Temple. And it's a private club, but anyone can join. you can do SUP, canoe, windsurfing, sailing, and wakeboarding. It’s really cool, if anyone wants information, you can ask me.

OF: That's great. Next question, what is your go-to song to sing at KTV?

AW: So… ‘Don't Cry for Me, Argentina’. 

OF: Oh you’re kidding!

AW: I’m very good with that. 

OF: OK, so that loops back to our very first point on this podcast. So, that's because you're Argentinian, or at least one eighth Argentinian?

AW: No but also because the song falls into my voice range. And I can do that high pitch really nicely. But usually after that song, I cannot sing anymore. But I love it. And also people know I’m from Argentina, so they love to hear me singing this song. That's how I impress people. And I just need that one song, then I'm done. 

OF: And finally, what other China-related sources of information do you use? 

AW: To be honest, like, I've been so busy the last five years with this brand, I don't follow news so much anymore. So I have to tell you that my best resource for news is my assistant. She loves news. And she's reading all kinds of news all the time. So she's the one who always, like, keeps me updated on what's going on with the world, with China, and everything. Yeah.

OF: Oh that's great. Wow, that's a really useful resource to have, she is indispensable obviously.

AW: For sure. 

OF: Well, thank you so much Angie, that was really interesting. The last question I ask everyone on this podcast is, out of everyone you know in China, who would you recommend that I interview next?

AW: So you should interview Katherine. She's a healer. She's from Peru. And she does workshops on cleansing. It's really good for people who are living in Shanghai, we are always in a very stressful lifestyle. Yeah.

OF: Wow. I've never met a healer like that before. I'm looking forward to meeting her. Thank you very much. 

AW: Thank you. 

[Outro]

OF: So when Angie mentioned her surprise at the fact that the official population of Shanghai is a few million larger than the population of Taiwan, careful listeners out there might have remembered that Vy from FitFam in Episode 8 said the exact same thing about the population of Australia. So I looked it up, and yes, Taiwan's population is 23.6 million and Australia's is 23.8. So there you have it, one city, one island and one continent all with the same population, more or less. 

I related very strongly to Angie's definition of home, so I really liked that meaning behind the jewellery collection that she made around this concept. Please check out the photos on social media. We're at @mosaicofchina_* on Instagram or @mosaicofchina on Facebook. Or you can add me on WeChat using my ID: mosaicofchina* and I'll add you there myself. 

Alongside that collection, the second image I posted is some of her work with the unpolished rough diamonds. And the final image was a comparison between the architectural style preferred by Western customers, versus the organic and natural style favoured by the Chinese customers. I looked at Angie's favourite word 气质 [qìzhí], and the translation I got was ‘temperament' or ‘disposition’. But there's something about Angie's direct translation - ‘the quality of your 气 [qì]’ - which just seemed to make more sense to me. If anyone out there has a better translation, then please let me know. I also uploaded a map I found of the distribution and population of ethnic minorities in Yunnan, which is fascinating since it's the most diverse province in China, in terms of ethnic mix. Other than that, there is a photo of Angie with her object, the callipers; there's a selfie, with me looking totally demented, I've got to say, but Angie looks lovely; there's a photo of her favourite restaurant Malabar; there is an image of the bed humidifier, which was the best purchase in humid Shanghai; and of course her favourite WeChat sticker, the swimming reindeer.

Mosaic of China is me Oscar Fuchs, extra editing support from Milo de Prieto, artwork by Denny Newell, and China support from Alston Gong. I'll see you next week.

*Different WeChat and Instagram handles were mentioned in the original recording. These IDs are now obsolete, and the updated details have been substituted.

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