Season 02 Compilation 07
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Compilation 07
Mosaic of China Season 02 - China Bests & Worsts
Original Date of Release: 11 Jan 2022.
In today's special compilation episode from Season 02 of the show, we listen to how 30 people answered the question: "If you left China, what would you miss the most, and what would you miss the least?"
There’s no such thing as perfection, living life is about dealing with both the rough and the smooth. The same holds true no matter where you live, or to which cultural identity you feel most affiliated. So it always makes for interesting listening to hear how people from different backgrounds answer this particular question.
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[Trailer]
CHANG Chihyun: You want to make the exception? You are going to suffer, mate.
[Intro]
OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast about people who are making their mark in China. I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs.
We’re already well into January, but since this is the first episode of 2022 let me wish you all a happy new year. We’re in that weird phase between the calendar new year and the lunar new year, where I feel like I can’t really be bothered to do anything. Maybe that’s just what January is, no matter where you are in the northern hemisphere.
Anyway, I am here, and I did manage to put together today’s compilation from Season 02 of the show, where we hear answers to the question “If you left China, what would you miss the most, and what would you miss the least?” If you listened to the special episode from the end of 2021, you’ve probably got some idea about how I would answer this question! But now it’s over to the 30 guests of Season 02 to share their answers.
[Main]
[Voiceover]
OF: Zhao Huiling, the Africa travel vlogger from Episode 28.
[Clip]
ZH: What would I miss the most? Convenience, with Alipay, with 饿了么 [Èleme]… No. Can I change my mind?
OF: You can.
ZH: OK, what I would miss the most, the Chinese food.
OF: OK, but that's too obvious.
ZH: I know but there are certain characteristics to the food I like. So it's something soupy, hot, very flavourful, spicy, with coriander.
OF: Oh, has to have coriander.
ZH: Yes. I think the least will be the limited access to platforms like YouTube, Instagram. Wink, wink.
OF: Wink, wink. We all know why we can't access these things in China. Unless there's a special magic fairy.
ZH: Exactly.
OF: Yeah.
[Voiceover]
OF: Ajay Jain, the car designer from Episode 21.
[Clip]
AJ: The dynamism; the reinvention; the excitement; the convenience of everything; the actual efficiencies of how things, if they didn't work today, they are definitely working tomorrow.
OF: And what about anything that you wouldn't miss
AJ: ****ing around with my VPN. One of the biggest conveniences in China is to do with the internet. And one of the biggest frustrations in China is to do with the internet.
OF: Yeah.
AJ: You can't have both ways. You can't have only the convenience without some of the frustration. And currently they blocked WeChat in India. So now, people keep trying to contact me through WhatsApp. You know, I've got to fiddle around and try to get online, and they're trying to call me, and messaging me, wondering why I'm not responding to the messages.
OF: Right.
AJ: Yeah.
[Voiceover]
OF: Cassandra Chen, the heavy metal bar owner from Episode 16.
[Clip]
CC: I think I would miss the most is… this very convenient lifestyle. At 2 o’clock, if you want to buy some beer, you can get it delivered in China. Other countries, probably not.
OF: And have you ever left China? Did you ever go overseas?
CC: Yeah, I went to Germany. When I was in Germany, I really missed vegetables.
OF: Because they have a lot of meat in Germany.
CC: And I think, for them, potato is a salad.
[Voiceover]
OF: Jovana Zhang, the handicrafts designer from Episode 08.
[Clip]
JZ: I’d miss the vegetables, the range of vegetables, which we don’t have in Europe, and it's such a pity, it's really nice. Even some parts of the flowers, and the tree. You know that tree you can eat it, 香椿树 [Xiāngchūnshù], you see it nowhere else. It's just really nice. The least I would miss the summer here, and the wetness. Especially 杭州 [Hángzhōu], where we saw the air, how the air circulates. It comes from Beijing, the one wind; and from Shanghai, another wind; and they all finish in West Lake, and become a little swirl. And it’s just like a dumpling in here, steaming ourselves.
[Voiceover]
OF: Vladimir Djurovic, the brand naming expert from Episode 13.
[Clip]
VD: The spices of China, literally and in a metaphorical way, I think there is so much flavour, so many things to experiment. Of course the scale, also, of things, which means you can see things that you can't imagine in other places. And I will say the same thing that I won't miss is the scale. If one day I leave China it will be because I want to go into a smaller place.
[Voiceover]
OF: Björn Dahlman, the Swedish clown from Episode 17.
[Clip]
BD: My friends, the people.
OF: Yeah. What would you miss the least?
BD: Oh, the silence of Sweden, I love it. I am very sensitive to sound. Cars honking, drilling, people screaming, crowded restaurants, you know. That's the one thing. I feel it in my body, there’s a higher level of tension when all this noise is going on.
[Voiceover]
OF: Jo McFarland, the product sourcing leader from Episode 18.
[Clip]
JM: Well, I know this is gonna be a really obvious answer, but I would absolutely miss the people the most. So I mean, in the office, it's like, I am the office foreigner. And I would miss the colleagues in the office because they tell me all the time I'm their Chinese family. You know, we've been on a journey. And then there's other ladies, like down in the noodle bar that I go to, that don't speak any English - and my Chinese is very limited - and somehow we can communicate, and they're very very sweet to me. And there are so many people from all walks of life around Shanghai, that I see in my daily life that are incredibly kind to me. That's what I would miss the most if I left China. Because this is my second time in China. And when I left the first time, that is what I missed. But the thing that I would miss the least is the sniffing.
[Sniffing sounds]
Like that, right?
OF: Mmm hmm.
JM: Honestly, it's like grating. It’s like, I can't bear it. I have to put on headphones, or get up and walk away. I don't know how it doesn't drive them crazy. Because I find it totally unbearable.
OF: They would say the same about us, when they hear us going to the bathroom, blowing our noses, and coming back. They’re like “Eurgh, you blow your nose”. Because this is the whole thing about wearing masks. It's all about keeping your exhalations to yourself. And so when you're sniffing, in a sense, you're sniffing in your own runny nose, because it's rude to blow them out.
JM: I prefer the nose-blowings.
[Voiceover]
OF: Salome Chen, the investor and developer from Episode 24.
[Clip]
SC: My parents. For me, people are always the most important thing. And of course, then I wouldn't miss those populists.
OF: Oh what do you mean? Oh, populists.
SC: Yeah, you know what I mean.
OF: I do. And it's the same wherever you go, right? If we were in the UK, I would say the same thing about people there, right?
SC: Yeah.
[Voiceover]
OF: Crystyl Mo, the fine dining expert from Episode 26.
[Clip]
CM: The people and the people. So, Chinese are not great as strangers. Americans are very friendly and have a warmth to them, that you can have some kind of friendly interaction with a stranger, which I think makes just walking around the city feel like more of a community. And yet, Chinese - while they can be quite cold and selfish to strangers - they are so warm and generous as soon as you are on any kind of friendly terms with them. You go to their house, and they will cook you a banquet and take care of you. That kind of warmth and generosity is something that struck me as a student when I first went to China and lived in 南京 [Nánjīng]. And so I would say that I don't miss being a stranger in China. But I do miss being a friend.
OF: Lovely.
[Voiceover]
OF: Alex Shoer, the clean energy entrepreneur from Episode 11.
[Clip]
AS: Random conversations with strangers. About the simplest and most mundane things. You know, in the U.S., everyone asks “How are you?” But they don't actually want to know. In China, they want to know, they're like “Tell me everything. Where are you from? What colour hair does your mother have?” You know they wanna go more and more. The simple conversations that you have with strangers.
OF: And what about the things that you would miss the least?
AS: Yeah, it's very simple. It's air pollution. I really, really, really disliked it. The AQI was over 900 one time.
[Voiceover]
OF: Douglon Tse, the island businessman from Episode 15.
[Clip]
DT: I’ll miss the energy. Because you can tell that people are still hopeful and optimistic, and not jealous and full of hatred. I won't miss the pollution.
[Voiceover]
OF: Sean Harmon, the beer company CEO from Episode 09.
[Clip]
SH: What I would miss the most is the energy. It's just so powerful here. If you push, and you have a great product and a great plan, and you put it to action, things can happen. And people work hard. And it's fun, it’s addicting, that sort of energy where you feel like anything's possible. Then the other side of that question is, it's got to be the pollution. And it's not only the air pollution. For me, it's also the noise pollution. You know the power drill, my boss used to call that ‘the birds of Shanghai’, because you don't hear birds that often but you do hear that power drill frequently.
OF: But those two things that you've said… you don't get this energy, this growth, this movement, without the sound of a growing city, right?
SH: Exactly, and that’s why I'm still here. It evens itself out.
[Voiceover]
OF: Seth Harvey, the education coach from Episode 19.
[Clip]
SH: What would I miss? Man, have you ever tried to take a taxi in New York City?
OF: Ah.
SH: It's like $30 to put your hand on the handle. This is such a well planned out city. It seems so big, but I find that getting around it from one side to the other is amazing. Like I said, you can take the bus, you can take the metro, and you can call a cab for like two bucks to go anywhere. The thing I will miss the least would be, ah man, like the construction. That hammer drill. TA-TA-TA-TA-TA-TA-TA-TA-TA-TA! Like, everyone knows that, and I think everyone's had an apartment where somebody's been renovating next door. So that's a trade-off for the amount of change and development that we enjoy, and we love. Sometimes that comes back, and it’s a huge negative.
[Voiceover]
OF: Zhang Yuan, the performance art exhibitor from Episode 07.
[Clip]
ZY: Traditional Chinese breakfast, particularly Shanghai breakfast. 大饼油条 [Dàbǐng yóutiáo], how do you call it in English? You know?
OF: Yeah, it’s those oily sort of sticks, right?
ZY: Yeah.
OF: It’s made of dough.
ZY: Dough, yeah. For the fat one, there is sweet and salty. For the longer one it’s only salty, I think.
OF: And anything that you would not miss if you left?
ZY: The noise, in the construction site. Wherever you go, there’s this noise. Something being demolished. Something being constructed. You move to a new house, and your neighbour is renovating… ach! In China, I really don’t think I could hear myself.
[Voiceover]
OF: Jiyoung, the transgender teacher from Episode 30.
[Clip]
J: I would miss all of the advocates, who always inspire me, day to day. I will not miss having to hide my identity at work. So, yeah…
[Voiceover]
OF: Noxolo Bhengu, the African community organiser from Episode 14.
[Clip]
NB: WeChat Pay, I would miss the most.
OF: Oh yeah.
NB: I love not like carrying money. There’s these conveniences here that I believe are five years, 10 years ahead of other parts in the world. The one thing I will not miss is not being able to see the sky. It never gets old, whenever I get home, I’m like a little kid just lost in wonder. I’m like “Oh my goodness, the sky is so blue. I can actually see stars”. And I can taste the air when I land in Durban. You land by the ocean. You can just taste the sea salt. And the air just hits you differently, man. So that's the one thing I will not miss, is walking outside and not seeing the sky.
[Voiceover]
OF: Cocosanti, the drag performer from Episode 05.
[Clip]
C: Same answer for both. It's a combination of three things Taobao, 美团 [Měituán], and 嘀嘀[Dídí]. Once I go back home to the U.S., I'm going to be so sad that I have to start using Amazon, or I can't order food randomly in the middle of the night, without paying a surcharge of like 500元 [Yuán], you know, or getting a taxi for the price of a cup of coffee. And I get it, I understand why. But my god, it's so convenient. And I hate that I've adapted to it so well.
OF: Oh, this is why it's also the thing you won't miss.
C: Oh, it makes me a monster. Yeah. I’m coming home from the club, “Oh, I have this in my cart”. It's been in my cart for maybe like five weeks. It's time to buy it. I'll message the seller and tell them “Hey, can you send this tomorrow, because I really need it now”. But I don’t. I don't, I don't ever need it. I never need it. I just want it.
[Voiceover]
OF: Louise Roy, the childbirth and lactation specialist from Episode 06.
[Clip]
LR: Taobao. I love Taobao, I've bought so much on Taobao over the years. I love, just the concept of you can get anything.
OF: Yeah
LR: Anything. What would I miss the least? Actually, I think what I would miss the least is when people, kind of like, ‘Chinasplain’ to me.
OF: Oh god.
LR: You know, like the ‘Chinasplaining.’ And then if I have a difference of opinion - that's, you know, gleaned from 15 years of experience - I've been brainwashed.
[Voiceover]
OF: Katherine Wong, the Peruvian healer from Episode 04.
[Clip]
KW: Online shopping. It's mostly for groceries. It is so easy. So efficient. You get your groceries within one hour. In Peru, there are no such things. So my mother had to call the lady from the little shop to ask “Do you have this? Do you have that?” And if she would say “Yes, I have this bread”. “Okay, which brand?” “I have this brand, this brand”. So it would take a long time.
OF: A great example. And what about the thing that you miss the least?
KW: The fast pace of life. You're sucked into this energy of going fast.
[Voiceover]
OF: Murray King, the public affairs leader from Episode 29.
[Clip]
MK: The most is the excitement of every day. Every day, something is happening, I learn something, I'm challenged in some way, I also feel like it can contribute in some way. I just feel like it's where everything's happening. So that's what I would miss the most. What I would miss the least is the fast pace. I don't know if that makes any sense. But when I do get out of the country - and when I go to my comfort zone, to France or somewhere else - you know, it's really nice to not have a fast pace. And every so often you need to kind of recharge your batteries, I think that's obvious. And the problem is, when I'm there I miss the fast pace after a couple of weeks; when I'm here after a few months, I need a break from the fast pace. So I'm never going to be completely happy in either.
[Voiceover]
OF: Jamie Barys, the street food expert from Episode 02.
[Clip]
JB: Food. Food, food, food… Sichuan noodles, that would be so hard.
OF: What about anything that you wouldn't miss?
JB: That’s tough because I feel like that's a coin that has two sides, whenever it happens. You know, a lot of times, I’ll take the subway and get pushed around and jostled around a little bit, and it's really annoying. But then I go to a wet market, and an 85 year old woman shoves me out of the way because I'm standing in front of the daikon radish that she really wants, and that just tickles me. So there are things that annoy me in the moment. But then on the flip side, if you understand why it's happening, it just… you can get over it really easily.
OF: Yeah.
[Voiceover]
OF: Michelle Qu, the improvisational comedian from Episode 20.
[Clip]
MQ: Oh, if I left China, of course I would miss my theatre, and my partners.
OF: Right.
MQ: Yeah.
OF: And what about the thing that you will miss the least?
MQ: When you get off a metro, or when you get off an elevator, somebody just stands in the middle of the gate. You're face to face. You want to kiss me?
OF: Yeah! Why did they do that?
MQ: Yeah, I really hate that.
[Voiceover]
OF: Danma Jyid, the Tibetan social enterprise leader from Episode 10.
[Clip]
DJ: I’d really miss Tibetan food. Momo. Momo is similar to dumplings, but we also have, like, steamed momo. Inside you have fillings.
OF: Like what? Like…
DJ: Yak meat.
OF: Oh, I knew it! I knew it.
DJ: Yeah, yak meat and herbs sometimes, yeah.
OF: Nice.
DJ: Yeah.
OF: What about, what would you miss the least?
DJ: Snow.
OF: Snow.
DJ: Yeah, we get heavy snow, and the road is all blocked.
[Voiceover]
OF: DJ BO, the DJ from Episode 23.
[Clip]
BO: OK. Shanghai is such an international city. And it's a place where I've met Dutch people, and Belgian people, and Italian people, and Japanese people. I'm able to engage with so many different cultures and people here. You can find some of that in New York and in London, but in Shanghai it just manifests itself so much into the legacy and the history of what Shanghai is. Least interesting, it’s that sort of policy of not engaging with things that you find in China. The idea that when there's a conflict, everyone stands back and watches. When there's a problem, you just kind of move away from things, and you don't engage with things.
[Voiceover]
OF: Stéphane Wilmet, the head of consumer insights at L'Oreal from Episode 01.
[Clip]
SW: I think I would miss the ‘ding ding ding’, you know, those tricyclers, the peddlers on their tricycles. I would miss this music. They’re recyclers on tricycles. And in this modern city, with so many millions of people that is so tech-advanced, this little music, it comes from another time. But I will remember that music. I actually followed one day, with my youngest son, I mean with his consent, we followed one such person in his day. And they have a very tough day. So this music is also bittersweet, in a way. What I would miss the least? Everybody knows everything about you. Everything. You know, what time you went out, what time you came back, what time your kids, what did they do, why you're this, why you’re that… And so at some point, it becomes too much.
[Voiceover]
OF: Chang Chihyun, the humanities professor from Episode 03.
[Clip]
CC: I would miss the culture. That's an abstract thing. You can see I'm quite westernised. The way I think, the wine, the scotch, whatsoever. But I still like to live this sort of cultural context. I wouldn't miss the bureaucracy. It can be extremely efficient, and it can be extremely outdated and slow.
OF: Yeah.
CC: You want to make the first case, the exception, you are going to suffer, mate.
[Voiceover]
OF: Casey Hall, the fashion journalist from Episode 22.
[Clip]
OF: Next question, if you left China, what would you miss the most, and what would you miss the least?
CH: 煎饼 [Jiānbing]. I’ve said for so many years that people should be exporting 煎饼 [jiānbing] into the West, because we foreigners all love that stuff. And it's a wonderful hangover cure. I think I would not miss… If I never had to go to a Chinese bank again, I would be a happy chappy.
OF: You have to take a whole file of paperwork, don’t you?
CH: You have to take a whole file of paperwork, and half a day, and even then I'll probably have to go home and get more paperwork.
OF: Yep.
[Voiceover]
OF: Wendy Saunders, the architect from Episode 12.
[Clip]
WS: I have to say the spontaneity of living in China, and the way things go so fast. OK, on the one hand it makes you very tired, and it has a lot of other things to it. But I will miss that. It’s so lively, and it's so flexible. And I remember when I first arrived, I thought that was so amazing, that you don't have to make appointments weeks ahead with people. You don't have to… Your work environment, it’s not so planned out. That, I think, is something quite special.
OF: That's well said. What about anything you'd miss the least?
WS: Yeah, the fact of being misunderstood, and the frustration of it, I think. You're always the foreigner, right? You're always a little bit, the one on the outside. That also gives a certain freedom, and a pleasure to it. I'm not gonna lie about that. But there's also sometimes something alienating about it.
[Voiceover]
OF: Michael Kinsey, the fire engineer from Episode 25.
[Clip]
MK: I think I would miss the convenience of living here. You can find almost anyone to do anything. Like fix things almost at any time of the day, or any day of the week. Actually, last night, I forgot my keys. And I know a guy who will come at any time. And it was slightly late at night, and he would just get up, come, and then he would come and open the door, and that was it.
OF: Wow.
MK: I think one of the things I would miss the least is the language barrier, and certainly being able to connect with certain people on certain levels. Conversely, it motivates me to want to learn more.
[Voiceover]
OF: Vittorio Franzese, the lawyer from Episode 27.
[Clip]
VF: It's something that I have always thought about China. By living here, you realise how easy life is. Sometimes you have a problem, and it gets solved just by knowing someone that has dealt with it before. Suddenly, it's not any more a problem. I feel like I do a lot of things in one day, which I wouldn't be able to do back home where life is so chill, and you need to take your time for every single thing you want to complete. On the other side, something that could look super straightforward and super easy to get would become impossible for reasons that are unknown to you. Because you have to pass through some authorisation or procedure that suddenly becomes slow and you cannot explain why. And you just find yourself in front of a problem that you didn't expect to encounter. China’s not a compromise. So you can get everything fast, or… impossible.
[Outro]
OF: And there you have it, the 阴 [yīn] and 阳 [yáng] episode. China is so liveable, so welcoming. And it’s the exact opposite of those things too. There’s a rough and a smooth in every country and in every culture, and indeed in every person. So let’s make it our job in 2022 to spread this message of nuance, balance and equanimity to as many people as possible.
Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs, with artwork by Denny Newell. And we’ll be back with the next compilation episode in two weeks, see you then.
[Clips]
SW: Thank you very much.
JB: Thank you, it’s been a pleasure.
CC: My pleasure.
KW: Thank you so much.
C: Oh hey, thanks.
LR: Thank you very much.
ZY: Thank you.
JZ: Thank you.
SH: It’s been a pleasure.
DJ: Thank you.
AS: Thank you.
WS: Thank you.
VD: Thanks.
NB: Thank you.
DT: Thank you.
CC: Thank you.
BD: Hehe, thank you.
JM: Thank you very much.
SH: My pleasure, thanks.
MQ: Thank you.
AJ: Thanks a lot.
CH: Thank you.
BO: Thank you very much.
SC: Thank you.
MK: Thank you.
CM: Thank you.
VF: Thank you so much.
ZH: Thank you for having me.
MK: It was my pleasure.
J: Thank you so much.